All about the Romany...

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All about the Romany...

Postby PerogeeGirl » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:02 am

Has anyone ever considered where the name Roma or Romany came from? I have two theories. Does anyone else have any?

Namaste'
Elizabeth Athineu
"If I can stop one heart from breaking, I shall not have lived in vain.", Emily Dickinson

Keep this message close to your heart my friends. Namaste'
Elizabeth Athineu
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The name....

Postby PerogeeGirl » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:05 am

have two theories about the term Roma or Romany.

1). News travels slowly in Europe, especially back in the ancient times. Gypsies were called just that because of the misconception that they were from Egypt, right? What if the peoples wanted to establish the idea that they were free and legal citizens that deserved protection from governments to be treated fairly. In wanting this they tried to call themselves 'Roman' becuase that was the reigning empire that still held a great deal of power over europe through catholicism.

2). The Romanian word for Gypsy is Roma, it could be that they adopted an ecclectic compilation of words that created the word Roma or Romany on their travels through different countries. Perhpas one should look at the words for 'nomad' 'traveler' 'guest' 'visitor' or the words associated with mysterious from languages in places like India, Russia, Romania, and the neighboring areas that they traveled through.

Those are two theories. I would love to hear more. Thanks everyone for listening! Multumesc! La revedere!

Namaste'

Elizabeth Athineu
"If I can stop one heart from breaking, I shall not have lived in vain.", Emily Dickinson

Keep this message close to your heart my friends. Namaste'
Elizabeth Athineu
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Re: All about the Romany...

Postby Vlad » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:14 am

Has anyone ever considered where the name Roma or Romany came from? I have two theories. Does anyone else have any?

Namaste'
Elizabeth Athineu


Well, the question was first popped on this page:

http://draculascastle.com/html/romapeople.html

Am glad somebody took the challenge, finally. :P

Thanks.
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Re: All about the Romany...

Postby webmaster » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:22 am

PerogeeGirl wrote:Has anyone ever considered where the name Roma or Romany came from? I have two theories. Does anyone else have any?

Namaste'
Elizabeth Athineu


I always thought that EMILY was "Dickinson", rather than "Dickenson". Love her poetry, nonetheless.

The theory is that they, (the gypsies coming from India), found a Eastern European country, which they tried to identify with.
That country was called Romania. Since ROMANIA is the only country which preserved the old name of the ROMAN EMPIRE, and LATIN GRAMMAR and language, it seems that GYPSIES from INDIA, figured a way to include themselves into EUROPE by using the general term of "ROMANY", which is very close to a certain European country, called ROMANIA. Isn't it?
Why didn't gypsies call themselves SLOVANY, for instance??
Or maybe, Hungariany, or maybe even SERBIANY??

You see the writing on the WALL, the way everybody else sees it?

Were it not for ROMANIA, the gypsies would have called themselves HUNGARIANY or FRANCIANY or Serbiany or SPANIARDIES....whatever. All of the above countries have their SHARE of gypsy population, by the way.

Most of the gypsies are wonderful people. PERIOD.
Most of them are trustworthy, simple, honest and hard working, sometimes geniuses. They love MUSIC. The gypsies are VIRTUOSO musicians.
However, "every forest has its rotten wood, and you do not destroy a forest, because of that" as Marian Cozma's father so gracefully specified, after his son was brutally murdered by a gang of Hungarian gypsies.

Our two simple gripes about gypsies, are that they keep to themselves, more than the Jewish people do, and last but not least, why ROMANY?? and not some other DENOMINATION, such as Russiany? Hungariany? Serbiany?Slovany?Franciany?Spaniany?

Let's start using their real names/identity:

Tiganii, pike, sinti, zingaro, zigeuner, bohemiens, gitano, gypsy/sies, hungaros

My question to you, my dear Elizabeth, is: Have you seen a movie called "Angelo My LOVE"??
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Talking....

Postby PerogeeGirl » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:06 am

No, I have not seen the film Angelo My Love; would you reccomend it? Anyway, alot of the Roma that I am intimate with tend to deny that their name comes from Romania, but then again the ones here in the United States may be a little more seperated from their culture than the traditional ones of Europe. Being born in Europe of protective parents, I was never able to explore my fascination with them while there. The studies in language and culture I do here probably can't compete with what could be learned overseas. I hope to find a way to network with a few in Germany and Romania some day. Thanks for the reply, it's good to see someone with similar interest and passionate thought! Keep it up.

Namaste'

Elizabeth Athineu
"If I can stop one heart from breaking, I shall not have lived in vain.", Emily Dickinson

Keep this message close to your heart my friends. Namaste'
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Postby Shish-kabob-Forrest » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:07 pm

I'm lost.
Blessed is he who shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is his brother's keeper. And I will strike down those who attempt to destroy my brothers and you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
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Romany For Today: Fortune Telling with Tarot

Postby PerogeeGirl » Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:33 pm

Dukering- fortune telling (Romany Vocabulary)

What about Tarot?

When the Romany arrived in Europe, they brought many of their traditions with them from India. While several of these peoples have adopted modern faiths to match their country of residence, Pagan and Hindu beliefs are still rampant in their culture. Tarot is one of the most common fascinations that the world holds with the Romany, who call the cards 'Wardi'. Originally, the tarot was somewhat of a game as well as a method to interpret dreams and visions. Now, the tarot are used in several different spreads to tell the future, instruct a querrent, and reveal things about forgotten pasts. If anyone has stories or so on about the usage of different decks, spreads, or interacting with different choovihni; please reply to this post!

Namaste'
Elizabeth Athineu
"If I can stop one heart from breaking, I shall not have lived in vain.", Emily Dickinson

Keep this message close to your heart my friends. Namaste'
Elizabeth Athineu
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Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:48 pm
Location: USA

Postby Shish-kabob-Forrest » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:34 pm

Interesting. I wana hear more.
Blessed is he who shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is his brother's keeper. And I will strike down those who attempt to destroy my brothers and you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
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Palmistry

Postby PerogeeGirl » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:35 pm

Dukering- fortune telling (Romany Vocabulary)

What about Palmistry?

Who doesn't think about gypsies when it comes to palm readings? They go, shall we say, hand in hand. Palm prints were man's earliest signature. It stands to reason for us now because we understand how specific the prints on the palms and fingers are to an individual, but even before advanced sciences, man recognized that the lifepath was contained in the signatures on the hands to some extent. You can tell a lot about a person's profession, health, and status by the conditions of the hands. Romany peoples took it a step further. Most choovihni agree that the left hand is your fate (what you are born with), and that your right hand is your destiny (what you make of life itself). The map of the hand is made by mounts, rings, and lines. The lengths, shapes, and disruptions give clues to any gypsy about a person's character and life. The belief that chakras controlling healing energy and lifeforce are found in the palm is one of the most prominent reason that it is the most common form of dukering. Current problems that need to be solved can be deciphered by clear symbols that appear on the hand beyond the lines that are there regardless. A good example is that an out of place circle will signify danger to a querrent; a star will signify future success; a forked object like a pitchfork symoblizes protection and stability; a square object aside from the lines signifies that hard work will be well rewarded. Take a look into having your palm read or learning the art yourself; I recommend Maria Gardini's Palmistry.

Namaste'
Elizabeth Athineu
"If I can stop one heart from breaking, I shall not have lived in vain.", Emily Dickinson

Keep this message close to your heart my friends. Namaste'
Elizabeth Athineu
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Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:48 pm
Location: USA

Postby Shish-kabob-Forrest » Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:36 pm

Very interesting to say the least.
Working in the urban legends field, I have learned that false rumors or overblown legends usually have a basis of reality behind them. Take the subject of this website for example. Actually, many myths and fairytale have some reality behind them. Dragons, ogers, fairies, vampires, giants, even ancient Gods; we now have evidence and historical documentation to suggest that there may have been some reality behind them. The use of hybrids in the movie: 300 has been criticized as "make believe" yet the records of history show that creatures like that actually existed in those times.
In what we still often think of as "magic" or mysticism we are now repeatedly finding scientific explanations for. Biorhythms and the "full moon" theory have for a long time been written off by Christians as witchery and occultism yet today, these are both scientifically understood to some degree. Another one like this that is STILL being written off by Christians as occultism is astrology, even though many of the bibles authors PRACTICED astrology and it too is now partially understood and confirmed in science.
I myself have lightly mixed views about palm reading. It definitely needs to be looked at further though at the same time, I cannot imagine it really being totally dependable. It sounds like the theory is that the palm leaves marks telling details about the person, there talents and how they are likely to go in life. At the same time, while this is more dependable then many think (our genetic talents and where they may take us), it's not a totally profound thing. The world and nature have very predictable ways and your talents usually make it pretty clear exactly where you will go in life yet, at the same time, people are often killed or crippled in accidents on their way to these destinations while at the same time, someone who is a natural "dead beat" occasionally ends up in the right place at the right time and makes it big in life.
On the other hand, one thing we do not understand at all and probably never will is prophecy. Some prophecies can, to some extent, be given possible explanations (the usual are claims that ETs who have their mathematics worked out relayed the info some how) but others are totally bizarre and off the hook. A couple examples. Constantine I predicted that the City of Constantinople would never fall as long as the moon shined over it. The night that the battle for Constantinople shifted in favor of the Ottoman Empire, there was a lunar eclipse that lasted through the fall. Another was made by, of all people, Tamerlane (a friend of Vlad the Impaler's grandfather BTW) who said in his death bed that those who disturbed his tomb would face a terror much greater then he. In 1941, the Russians excavated his tomb. We all know what happened to the Soviet Union in 1941.
Likewise, someone who can truly foretell the future accurately DOES remain in the realm of mystery yet evidence suggests that it's reality.
Anyhow, tell me a little more about how palm reading works. I am really interested in this subject.
Blessed is he who shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is his brother's keeper. And I will strike down those who attempt to destroy my brothers and you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
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Re: Romany For Today: Fortune Telling with Tarot

Postby Vlad » Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:07 am

PerogeeGirl wrote:Dukering- fortune telling (Romany Vocabulary)

What about Tarot?

When the Romany arrived in Europe, they brought many of their traditions with them from India. While several of these peoples have adopted modern faiths to match their country of residence, Pagan and Hindu beliefs are still rampant in their culture. Tarot is one of the most common fascinations that the world holds with the Romany, who call the cards 'Wardi'. Originally, the tarot was somewhat of a game as well as a method to interpret dreams and visions. Now, the tarot are used in several different spreads to tell the future, instruct a querrent, and reveal things about forgotten pasts. If anyone has stories or so on about the usage of different decks, spreads, or interacting with different choovihni; please reply to this post!

Namaste'
Elizabeth Athineu


Hoping you're still around, please check these links:

http://draculascastle.com/phpbb2/viewto ... ght=romany

http://draculascastle.com/phpbb2/viewto ... ight=gypsy

http://draculascastle.com/phpbb2/viewto ... ight=cozma
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Re: The name....

Postby Vlad » Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:06 am

PerogeeGirl wrote:have two theories about the term Roma or Romany.

1). News travels slowly in Europe, especially back in the ancient times. Gypsies were called just that because of the misconception that they were from Egypt, right? What if the peoples wanted to establish the idea that they were free and legal citizens that deserved protection from governments to be treated fairly. In wanting this they tried to call themselves 'Roman' becuase that was the reigning empire that still held a great deal of power over europe through catholicism.

2). The Romanian word for Gypsy is Roma, it could be that they adopted an ecclectic compilation of words that created the word Roma or Romany on their travels through different countries. Perhpas one should look at the words for 'nomad' 'traveler' 'guest' 'visitor' or the words associated with mysterious from languages in places like India, Russia, Romania, and the neighboring areas that they traveled through.

Those are two theories. I would love to hear more. Thanks everyone for listening! Multumesc! La revedere!

Namaste'

Elizabeth Athineu


The Romanian name for Gypsy is NOT ROMA...It is Tzigan.

Roma/Romany was invented by the SOROS Foundation.

http://draculascastle.com/phpbb2/viewto ... ight=#2041

Let's keep it straight.
Last edited by Vlad on Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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A mixed message. . .

Postby PerogeeGirl » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:17 am

I think you might have missed the message. I was wondering why the Roma called themselves Roma (which they do for we who are either gorga, gadje, or half), not what the cultures around the world call them (which are as varied as the forms of Roma language). Actually, a friend who is a 'gypsy' from Germany told me that they call themselves Roma becuase it is plural for 'Rom' which means man (romni is woman) in their base tongue which branches out for the different regions of travel. Literally, they simply refer to themselves as men or mankind, which is rather non-judgemental and uppity all at the same time. I love it.
"If I can stop one heart from breaking, I shall not have lived in vain.", Emily Dickinson

Keep this message close to your heart my friends. Namaste'
Elizabeth Athineu
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Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:48 pm
Location: USA

Re: A mixed message. . .

Postby Vlad » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:04 am

PerogeeGirl wrote:I think you might have missed the message. I was wondering why the Roma called themselves Roma (which they do for we who are either gorga, gadje, or half), not what the cultures around the world call them (which are as varied as the forms of Roma language). Actually, a friend who is a 'gypsy' from Germany told me that they call themselves Roma becuase it is plural for 'Rom' which means man (romni is woman) in their base tongue which branches out for the different regions of travel. Literally, they simply refer to themselves as men or mankind, which is rather non-judgemental and uppity all at the same time. I love it.


Dear PerogeeGirl,

Have you seen the latest gypsy deeds?

For starters:

http://draculascastle.com/phpbb2/viewto ... ight=cozma

Did you know, for instance, that gypsies in EU took the Mafia (Italian term and implication, mind you) habit of asking for protection money from small businesses and people?? We wonder whom they learned it from.

Did you know that they are terrorizing small to medium communities in Europe, while doing so?

We did not, until the Romanian handball player Cozma was assasinated by the Hungarian gypsies. Or, better said, gypsies from Hungary.

We would love to know YOUR opinion on the above case.
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A Very Old Fallacy . . .

Postby PerogeeGirl » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:06 am

Oh dear, it looks like you've committed the social fallacy of OVERGENERALIZATION. In an overgeneralization, a person attributes a facet, whether true or not, to a group of people or, in some instances, the world in general. Do you really believe that Gypsies are the new mob? Surely not every caravanserai or familia that wander into a european city would commit organized crime? I don't. There's no denying, of course, that it does happen. After all, evil will find a way into the hearts of man, Roma or not, and make itself known to those around. This doesn't mean, in any wise, that the Roma are the new mafia; it does mean that a few groups have adopted some unsavoury lifestyles and habits from others around them. All human beings have the capability for organized and unorganized crime (mafias exist around the world, not just Europe) and just because a few groups of an ethnicity are participating in it does not make the entire race, or the country, criminal. I do thank you for the discussion topic; it has been fun discussing it with friends and I hope that you will continue to send me these tidbits! How delightfully thought provoking!

Namaste'

Elizabeth Athineu

(daughter of Stewarts, Bruces, Moores, and a clan of French/Gitano Roma!)
"If I can stop one heart from breaking, I shall not have lived in vain.", Emily Dickinson

Keep this message close to your heart my friends. Namaste'
Elizabeth Athineu
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Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:48 pm
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